If you're a longtime follower of the Hearthstone competitive scene, you're probably familiar with the name Kitkatz. One of the earliest pros in Hearthstone, Andrew "Kitkatz" Deschanel, quickly developed a reputation as one of the best Control Warrior deck builders around. Both a tournament player and a regular streamer, Kitkatz has played with and against some of the best Hearthstone players in the world during his stints at Tempo Storm, Team Hearthlytics and Team Curse. Having just signed with a new team, Kingdom eSports, Kitkatz took the time to talk with us about the Hearthstone tournament world, the upcoming DreamHack Austin event, the newest Old Gods expansion and Warrior decks.
First off, tell us a little about how you got into Hearthstone. Did you have a background in card games?
Kitkatz: I was a professional Magic player for most of my younger years. I started at about 13 and my best friend at the time, Nathan 'ThatsAdmirable' Zamora also played Magic and we grew up in the same town and helped each other out. We played very competitively right from the start and were at the top of the younger scene. Then I went to a lot of Grand Prix and pro tours all over the world and got to travel. It was really cool.
I lost touch with ThatsAdmirable for a while but Hearthstone brought us back together. It was really amazing as we hadn't talked for six years.
Do you still keep up to date in Magic or is it all Hearthstone now?
Kitkatz: No, not anymore. After they introduced Planeswalkers it kind of turned me off of the game.
What drew you to Hearthstone initially? It is a simpler game than Magic.
Kitkatz: It is simpler, but what first brought me to Hearthstone is that I saw Dan "Artosis" Stemkoski playing. As a kid I also played StarCraft competitively and I dreamed that someday I'd be good enough and Artosis is going to want to buy me a beer. It turned out I'm not that good at StarCraft.
So I saw him play Hearthstone and thought, "Hey, I can do that." Actually, my first ever tournament was ESGN Fight Night Season 6 and Artosis was casting it. And after casting my matches and doing my interview, he's like "Kitkatz, can I buy you a beer?" and I was like "My frickin' dream has finally come true!"
So you've joined a new team, Kingdom eSports. Are you gearing up for more tournament play or focusing on streaming?
Kitkatz: It's more for tournament play. They plan on sending me to tournaments, places I couldn't get to when I was on my own. So I'll be playing at PAX Prime and some other North American events as well. Luckily there have started to be a lot more North American events with things like DreamHack Austin and the PAX tournaments becoming majors rather than smaller circuit events. It's great to see the North American scene growing and maybe keep up with the EU scene.
Did you find early Hearthstone's trend of invitation-only events an obstacle after you left Tempo Storm?
Kitkatz: Yes, when you're not on a top-5 team it is almost impossible to get invites as it was a complete boys club kind of thing where you had to know, not necessarily other pros, who I know very well, but you had to know the people who organized the tournaments. So it kind of became "who you know" rather than how good you were, and that really disillusioned me from playing Hearthstone for a long time.
Do you feel a more open tournament scene is healthier for the long-term growth of Hearthstone?
Kitkatz: Absolutely. Already you can see the growth of more streamers and players as the result of tournaments. Victor "Vlps" Lopez was almost an unknown, but as a result of getting to go to the China vs. NA tournament and doing so well there, he's grown into his own player and streamer now. It's really great to see that.
Another example is that if you look back before the first World Championships, you saw James "Firebat" Kostesich, who we all in the pro scene acknowledged as the best player in the world, have trouble getting invites. In his acceptance speech for the trophy he says, "Maybe I'll get invited to something now." With Blizzard changing it to not give points to invite tournaments and focusing on these open tournaments, it's refreshing, and you'll see the best players rise to the top.
So you like the Swiss format that DreamHack is using?
Kitkatz: I've always felt that Swiss is the best tournament format, coming from my Magic background, because you can see the consistency of Magic pros, for example Luis Scott-Vargas's run for an entire year and some of the dominant Japanese players. You can be a lot more consistent in a Swiss format than in single or double-elimination brackets.
You're based in Texas, did you go to school down there?
Kitkatz: I finished school already, I majored in Neuroscience and Psychology and it was overall a good experience. I actually paid for college in part with my poker and Magic winnings. A little bit of Hearthstone, too, but that was at the very end of my schooling so it wasn't a major source of my income then.
Do you plan on going into a related field full time or are you focused on Hearthstone for now?
Kitkatz: My ideal plan is that I end up working at Blizzard, doing something related to esports. I'm pretty good at community organization and things like that.
I noticed that, especially during the first closed beta period, you had dipped your toes into Overwatch. Any plans on continuing that competitively?
Kitkatz: I was actually on a competitive team in Overwatch at the start of the beta in Team Prime, and we were a top three team in North America at that point. But what ended up happening is that my team wanted me to scrim eight hours a day and I couldn't do both Overwatch and Hearthstone. So I stepped away from Overwatch, but I do plan on making Overwatch a pretty big part of my stream. I've always had competitive drive and the desire to be the best or at least competitive in the things I try.
That's what I like about games in general. Growing up, I lost most of the function in my leg. I used to play sports all the time and then when that couldn't happen anymore I started using my brain and focused school and games. I saw the competition I used to love and care so much about, and to be able to compete again now with my hands and my brains, it was just beautiful to me.
Going back to Hearthstone, how do you feel about the change to Standard format?
Kitkatz: I think the Standard format needed to exist. You see it in Magic. Eventually, there's just an overwhelming burden on new players when they join the game. How can you ask someone to get seven sets of cards? It's too much to ask of anyone. Also, there were cards in the game like Piloted Shredder that just had no competition at all. Cards like that were stifling and made midrange decks like Druid just overwhelmingly powerful. So Standard got rid of a lot of the cards that were just too powerful and now, if you look at the decks spawning now, it's incredible; there's so much diversity right now.
"Even though we lost so many powerful cards like Death's Bite and Shieldmaiden, Blizzard gave us powerful cards like Blood to Ichor to fight early game 1/3 cards. And Ravaging Ghoul, that card is bonkers."
Do you like the effect the Old Gods themselves are having on the game?
Kitkatz: I love the concept of the Old Gods. They're all ten mana and super-powerful but at the same time, the effects need to be built around. They're not just singularly powerful cards like a card such as Ragnaros, you really need to design your deck around them. For C'Thun, there's a whole archetype that you have to play in order to use him. N'Zoth is extremely powerful and I think at DreamHack Austin you're going to see a lot of N'Zoth Paladins and maybe some N'Zoth Priests and even some N'Zoth Rogues.
Since Blackrock Mountain and now with the Old Gods, we've seen new Warrior deck archetypes. Is Control Warrior still your favorite?
Kitkatz: The one I enjoy the most, of course, is Control Warrior. It's been my baby and I invented Control Warrior. Everyone looked at the Control Warrior cards and said "this is terrible" and many people actually thought Shield Slam was the worst epic card in the game. I looked at the cards and thought "Hey, I can build something on this," and ever since then, it's been my pet.
Even though we lost so many powerful cards like Death's Bite and Shieldmaiden, Blizzard gave us powerful cards like Blood to Ichor to fight early game 1/3 cards. And Ravaging Ghoul, that card is bonkers. I think it's probably the best card in the set, rivaling N'Zoth and working with both Patron Warrior and Control Warrior. And Tempo Warrior, a newer archetype, something similar to what Zalae played back in the day. All Warrior decks are really good right now, which is phenomenal! I think it will be one of the most banned classes at DreamHack Austin.
Will Pirate Warrior ever become a thing? Blizzard did give Warrior a three-drop pirate!
Kitkatz: They did! I don't think there will ever be a Pirate Warrior, it's just one of those tribals that don't have particularly powerful cards. I'm sure eventually they'll make more Pirate cards.
You know a Pirate expansion or adventure has to come at some point!
Kitkatz: Maybe we'll get some Ninjas vs. Pirates or something like that. Perhaps a Booty Bay adventure?
Best-selling expansion of all-time.
Kitkatz: I'd play Ninjas vs. Pirates all day.
Aggro Shaman. Do you think it'll become the new lamented deck? They really only lost Crackle.
Kitkatz: I definitely think it could be, but I'm also thinking that maybe midrange Shaman is better. It's going to be the aggro deck of choice right now. I think also that this weekend at DreamHack one of the best lineups you can play is four aggro decks, maybe Aggro Shaman, Aggro Paladin, Aggro Hunter, and maybe Aggro Rogue or something. Because everyone's going to have really clunky control decks and I honestly believe the person who wins the whole thing is going to be the guy bringing cancer to the world.
So are you going full aggro for DreamHack?
Kitkatz: I wanted to, but unfortunately I'm not the best aggro builder, and my friends Keaton "Chakki" Gill and Purple were busy doing their own deck designs and couldn't really help me. It was kind of a last minute thing when I thought about going full aggro and winning the tournament that way, but then I didn't really have decklists for it and I only had an hour.
Let's say you get to the finals this weekend. Who would you like to play against in the final?
Kitkatz: Probably Chakki. I think we just have very different play styles. He's always been one of my best friends in Hearthstone. We were on our first Hearthstone team, Clarity, together for ESGN Fight Night and it would be amazing to play against him. Or maybe That's Admirable.
DreamHack is using the Last Hero Standing format rather than Conquest. What is your preference on match formats?
"I think N'Zoth Paladin is an extremely fun deck. It's really cool; nobody really thought that Forbidden Healing would be the new "nuts" card but that card is insane!"
Kitkatz: I prefer Last Hero Standing so much more than Conquest. It's not even close to me. The reason why Conquest exists is because you had really powerful decks at the time and rather than institute bans, Blizzard felt that limiting the decks to one win a match kept them from being too overpowering. It's a pretty good approach to the problem we were facing at the time with Miracle Rogue and Midrange Hunter with Starving Buzzard/Unleash the Hounds. It was really smart.
But from a competitive standpoint, I think Last Hero Standing is so much more interesting and also more skill-based. For example, I know how to build the decks I want to play, but I literally spent four hours coming up with a lineup. In this format, I had to think about how everything fares against everything because one deck can sweep. So if your decks are weak to a certain archetype or class and you don't ban it, you're screwed. What happens if you bring three control heavy decks and they bring Freeze Mage and Miracle Rogue? They can just sweep you with one of those because you can't ban both. So there's so much more strategy involved in that you need proper counter-decks, where before you didn't. It brings competition to a higher level.
How would you feel about implementing sideboards in Hearthstone like there are in Magic?
[Note to readers: a sideboard is a small pool of cards set aside that can be substituted into your deck before a match to address matchup weaknesses]
Kitkatz: The reason you need a sideboard in Magic is because it's a one-deck format. But Hearthstone is very different in that it's a multi-deck format. The likely sideboard cards like Big Game Hunter, Harrison Jones, The Black Knight, or the silences are just too powerful against certain decks. They're powerful enough that you need to decide to play them beforehand, so a sideboard would not be good for Hearthstone. You already essentially have side decks because you're playing three or four of them, depending on format.
Outside of Warrior, what decks have you most enjoyed playing since the expansion hit?
Kitkatz: I think N'Zoth Paladin is an extremely fun deck. It's really cool; nobody really thought that Forbidden Healing would be the new "nuts" card but that card is insane! After we started playing with it, we realized how powerful it would be and nobody predicted it. And Freeze Mage, which I believe will be one of the most powerful decks at DreamHack Austin as well. It's one of those classes that can just carry a lineup if your opponent doesn't ban it or bring a deck that addresses it. I think you'll either see Freeze Mage be banned a lot or win a lot.
So you don't think losing Mad Scientist is that big a deal for Freeze Mage?
Kitkatz: No, because what ended up happening is that all the decks got slower. And Druid lost Force of Nature/Savage Roar, Shaman lost Crackle, and Warrior lost Shieldmaiden. Freeze Mage can actually beat Warrior now. It's not favored but you at least have a chance where before it was nearly impossible. Freeze Mage beats Paladin and beats Priest so losing Mad Scientist isn't a big deal with everyone playing control decks. That's one of the reasons I think, as I said before, that I think aggro decks will run rampant at this tournament.
Is there a particular card removed from Standard format you wish you could still play?
Kitkatz: Has to be Death's Bite.
Not Sneed's Old Shredder? It treated you so well in that match against Thijs "Thijs" Molendijk last year.
Kitkatz: That became my favorite memory and I don't think I've had anything that crazy happen in Hearthstone since. But the card I miss the most is still Death's Bite.
One last question. Tentacles for Arms. Great card? Or greatest card?
Kitkatz: Oh my gosh, that has to be the greatest troll ever by Blizzard.
Infinite value!
Kitkatz: That has to be one of the most disappointing cards of the set, though. It doesn't even re-equip! It could at least do that, it's five mana!