Kiper vs. McShay: Head-to-head three-round mock draft

For this one, it's not about whom we project -- it's about which player we would take at each slot.

Thing is, because we have to alternate picks, we won't always get the player who seems like the best fit for each slot, because that player could be taken the pick before. The ground rules are simple: alternate picks; no trades; no deals that say "I won't take Player X if you don't take Player Y." It's just "This is whom I'd take" at every slot on the board for three full rounds.

Let the fun begin.

Round 1

1. Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Todd McShay's pick: Jameis Winston, QB, Florida State

The Bucs have to get their franchise quarterback out of this pick, and Winston has been the top overall prospect on my board for quite some time now. His behavioral history is a concern, but he's one of the best QB prospects to enter the league in the last decade.

2. Tennessee Titans
Mel Kiper's pick: Marcus Mariota, QB, Oregon

This wasn't at all a tough decision for me. Zach Mettenberger simply can't match Mariota as a talent, and even if I'm not sold on Mariota, at this slot he's a valuable trade asset that I can listen to offers on. And I'm not at all in the camp that says Mariota can't "fit our system."

3. Jacksonville Jaguars
McShay's pick: Amari Cooper, WR, Alabama

This is a tough call between Cooper, the best WR in the draft, Dante Fowler Jr., the best edge rusher in the draft, and Leonard Williams, the best overall defensive player in the draft. But Cooper is the No. 3 player on my board and fills a need. Neither Allen Robinson nor Marqise Lee is a true No. 1 receiver, but that's what Cooper has the potential to be.

4. Oakland Raiders
Kiper's pick: Leonard Williams, DE, USC

Last year the Raiders added a versatile linebacker who is exceptional against the run and has big upside as a pass-rusher. That was Khalil Mack. Now I'm adding the defensive line version in Williams. If Cooper is here it's a tough call, but this is a deep class of WRs.

5. Washington Redskins
McShay's pick: Dante Fowler, DE, Florida

We're thrilled that Fowler is available at this spot, as he's the top-ranked edge rusher on my board, and that's Washington's biggest need. He also has the size new general manager Scot McCloughan covets at the position.

6. New York Jets
Kiper's pick: Brandon Scherff, OT, Iowa

Arguably the best player available,. He can help my running game immediately, which makes my offense (and the passing game) more efficient. I looked at wide receiver here, but Scherff makes us better right now, and this roster is closer to really good than many realize.

7. Chicago Bears
McShay's pick: Kevin White, WR, West Virginia

This is an easy choice. Chicago needs a replacement for Brandon Marshall opposite Alshon Jeffery, and White has No. 1 receiver potential with his combination of size, speed and ball skills.

8. Atlanta Falcons
Kiper's pick: Bud Dupree, OLB, Kentucky

His versatility will be crucial, but Dupree can be the pass-rushing presence this defense needs right away. Vic Beasley was in play here, but Dupree's length, athleticism and upside give him the edge.

9. New York Giants
McShay's pick: Todd Gurley, RB, Georgia

Yes, this is early for a running back, but Gurley is one of the best overall prospects in this draft class and the best player on the board in this scenario. He's a fit too, as the Giants lacked a big-play threat at running back last season, and free-agent pickup Shane Vereen is more of a part-time back whose biggest contributions come via the passing game.

10. St. Louis Rams
Kiper's pick: DeVante Parker, WR, Louisville

Todd kills me for "breaking a Mel Kiper rule" and putting a running back in Round 1 of my Grade A, then he drafts Gurley at No. 9!? Who's the hypocrite? Anyway, Parker is a perfect fit at a need position. Easy call. Length, catch radius, explosiveness.

11. Minnesota Vikings
McShay's pick: Trae Waynes, CB, Michigan State

The Vikings need to find a starting cornerback opposite Xavier Rhodes in Mike Zimmer's press-man coverage scheme, and Waynes is the top-ranked corner on my board. He has excellent straight-line speed and technique.

12. Cleveland Browns
Kiper's pick: Danny Shelton, DT, Washington

Get an every-down, two-gapping, block-eating monster who can come in ready to help at a position of need? Don't mind if I do. We'll get the help at wide receiver later on. Malcom Brown is a consideration, but Shelton gets the edge.

13. New Orleans Saints
McShay's pick: Randy Gregory, DE, Nebraska

Gregory's off-field issues are a concern, but I think his talent outweighs the risk here. The Saints really need to improve their pass rush, and Gregory is a supremely talented edge rusher with an outstanding combination of length and explosiveness.

14. Miami Dolphins
Kiper's pick: Breshad Perriman, WR, Central Florida

We have the intermediate targets in Jarvis Landry and Kenny Stills. Now I have the sub-4.3 speed (at near 220 pounds) to keep safeties honest, and Perriman is playmaker after short catches as well. This helps my franchise QB.

15. San Francisco 49ers
McShay's pick: Arik Armstead, DE, Oregon

The Niners need to add depth and talent to their defensive line, regardless of whether Justin Smith decides to retire. Armstead has prototypical size and strength to be a 5-technique defensive end in a 3-4 scheme like the one San Francisco runs.

16. Houston Texans
Kiper's pick: Phillip Dorsett, WR, Miami

He's not the same kind of down-the-field threat as the departed Andre Johnson, because he doesn't have the same size. But Dorsett can blow away even some of the fastest safeties and gives Houston a needed No. 2. Serious big-play addition here.

17. San Diego Chargers
McShay's pick: La'el Collins, G, LSU

Gurley would be the perfect fit for the Chargers if he slides this far. But Collins fills a need as well, as he could slide in as the Chargers' starting left guard. He lacks ideal length and athleticism, but he is an effective blocker with good strength and versatility to play guard or right tackle.

18. Kansas City Chiefs
Kiper's pick: Jaelen Strong, WR, Arizona State

I just like the fit. Strong has underrated speed to beat defenses deep, but also gives them size to make contested catches. He might even catch a touchdown pass.

19. Cleveland Browns
McShay's pick: Andrus Peat, OT, Stanford

The Browns need to add depth along their offensive line, and Peat is the No. 12 prospect on my board, so the value makes sense here.

20. Philadelphia Eagles
Kiper's pick: Marcus Peters, CB, Washington

I think the coachability concerns are more muted at this point and I want to give Chip Kelly a cornerback he really needs and believe he'll make it work. Peters can be a turnover-maker in the secondary. This is a clear need area as well.

21. Cincinnati Bengals
McShay's pick: Ereck Flowers, OT, Miami (FL)

Current starting left tackle Andrew Whitworth and starting right tackle Andre Smith are both in the final years of their contracts, and Flowers is the top-ranked player left on the board. He's likely a right tackle in the NFL but could potentially develop into a left tackle.

22. Pittsburgh Steelers
Kiper's pick: Byron Jones, CB, Connecticut

We're looking pretty thin in the secondary and I get maybe the most versatile cornerback in the draft, a kid who can help in the slot or at safety early on if needed. And as we all know, he's an absolute stud as an athlete.

23. Detroit Lions
McShay's pick: Malcom Brown, DT, Texas

This is the best pick of this draft so far. The Lions traded for Haloti Ngata, but that alone won't fill the void left by the departures of Ndamukong Suh and Nick Fairley. Brown is an excellent run defender who can play multiple roles in Detroit's front.

24. Arizona Cardinals
Kiper's pick: Melvin Gordon, RB, Wisconsin

Glad you're excited about your "best pick" Todd. Yeesh. Speaking of "great" picks, Todd went with a running back at No. 9, so I'm not feeling too bad getting Bruce Arians a player he really needs at No. 24. Put MG III in the rookie of the year conversation now.

25. Carolina Panthers
McShay's pick: D.J. Humphries, OT, Florida

This is the first reach I've had to make in this draft, but the Panthers' need at tackle is too great. Humphries struggles against power rushers but might have the best movement skills of any offensive lineman in this draft.

26. Baltimore Ravens
Kiper's pick: Kevin Johnson, CB, Wake Forest

Easy call. This secondary was decimated last season and Johnson can come in and provide needed reps to help -- with improved health -- turn a weakness into a strength in 2015.

27. Dallas Cowboys
McShay's pick: Eddie Goldman, DT, Florida State

Goldman won't provide much as a pass-rusher, but he's an excellent run defender who will make the Cowboys better in that area.

28. Denver Broncos
Kiper's pick: Cameron Erving, OL, Florida State

Can't complain about finding a starting center, and potentially a really good one, at this point in the draft given it's clearly a position of need. Erving has Pro Bowl talent if he stays at that position.

29. Indianapolis Colts
McShay's pick: Shane Ray, OLB, Missouri

Ray dropped a little bit here due to concerns over his toe injury and based on the fact that I have some questions about his ability to drop in coverage as a 3-4 outside linebacker. But he's a great value this late in the first round, and he'd give the Colts much-needed youth at the edge-rusher position behind veterans Robert Mathis and Trent Cole.

30. Green Bay Packers
Kiper's pick: Jalen Collins, CB, LSU

He'll need to be coached up, but Collins gives us needed depth at cornerback in a division where it's simply impossible to have too many corners. I think I can add a need at linebacker or on the D-line later on.

31. New Orleans Saints
McShay's pick: Devin Smith, WR, Ohio State

I'm pumped for this pick. I filled the Saints' need at pass-rusher with Gregory with the No. 13 pick, and in Smith they get one of the best deep threats in this class to pair with second-year receiver Brandin Cooks.

32. New England Patriots
Kiper's pick: Eric Rowe, S, Utah

Bill Belichick can use a versatile talent in the secondary (maybe more than one), and Rowe gives him just that. I'd actually take a hard look at Devin Smith or Eddie Goldman if available here, but Rowe hits a need as the type of player my coach maximizes.

Round 2

33. Tennessee Titans
McShay's pick: Cedric Ogbuehi, OT, Texas A&M

Ogbuehi is coming off a torn ACL, but once he's healthy he has the talent to start at right tackle opposite Taylor Lewan, giving the Titans a pair of bookends for first-round pick QB Marcus Mariota.

34. Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Kiper's pick: Jake Fisher, OT, Oregon

I have my QB of the future, now it's time to shore up an obvious need at right tackle. (Yes, Ogbuehi could have been in play, Todd.)

35. Oakland Raiders
McShay's pick: Nelson Agholor, WR, USC

He's a steal here, helping to fill the Raiders' need at wide receiver after they got Leonard Williams with the No. 4 overall pick. He'll be a versatile weapon for second-year QB Derek Carr.

36. Jacksonville Jaguars
Kiper's pick: Vic Beasley, OLB, Clemson

Can you say steal? I know I have Beasley higher on my board than Todd, but wow. Cooper plus Beasley. The Jags got better.

37. New York Jets
McShay's pick: Hau'oli Kikaha, OLB, Washington

Kikaha is one of my favorite players in this class, he's a good value here and fills a need at edge rusher for the Jets, who took Brandon Scherff in Round 1.

38. Washington Redskins
Kiper's pick: T.J. Clemmings, OT, Pittsburgh

Clemmings has a little boom-or-bust to him because the talent and frame are ahead of the skill set, but the value is fine here at a need position.

39. Chicago Bears
McShay's pick: Eric Kendricks, LB, UCLA

Finally, the Bears get a linebacker who can cover -- Kendricks is the best linebacker in pass coverage in this class.

40. New York Giants
Kiper's pick: Landon Collins, S, Alabama

I know Collins has some limitations in coverage, but he's a steal at this point. We need help at safety and linebacker and in some ways he's both.

41. St. Louis Rams
McShay's pick: Laken Tomlinson, G, Duke

I was tempted to pull a Kiper here and trade back, but instead I'll reach a little bit and get the Rams the physical guard they're looking for in Tomlinson.

42. Atlanta Falcons
Kiper's pick: Tevin Coleman, RB, Indiana

Even with Devonta Freeman around I think Coleman comes in with a good chance to get 200 or more carries. He'll hit more home runs than Freeman.

43. Cleveland Browns
McShay's pick: Maxx Williams, TE, Minnesota

The Browns upgraded their defensive and offensive lines with their first two picks in Danny Shelton and Ereck Flowers, and Williams gives them a pass-catching weapon at tight end to replace Jordan Cameron.

44. New Orleans Saints
Kiper's pick: A.J. Cann, G, South Carolina

We have the pass-rusher, as well as the wide receiver. Cann gives us the guard needed to fill a clear void.

45. Minnesota Vikings
McShay's pick: Denzel Perryman, LB, Miami

In Perryman and first-round pick Trae Waynes, the Vikings have now filled their two biggest needs on defense. Perryman could start from day one at middle linebacker.

46. San Francisco 49ers
Kiper's pick: Stephone Anthony, LB, Clemson

You win, Todd. I would have taken Perryman here if available, but Anthony gives me a potential immediate starter at an obvious need position.

47. Miami Dolphins
McShay's pick: Eli Harold, OLB, Virginia

This pick doesn't make sense from a scheme fit or need perspective, but he's too good of a value at this point to pass up. We'll need to find a way to get Harold on the field as a pass-rusher.

48. San Diego Chargers
Kiper's pick: Devin Funchess, WR, Michigan

The "size" pass-catchers on this team (Malcom Floyd, Antonio Gates) are well into their 30s. Funchess is close to a major steal at this point.

49. Kansas City Chiefs
McShay's pick: Damarious Randall, S, Arizona State

The Chiefs need to upgrade their secondary, and Randall can fit at either safety or nickel cornerback. They already got their receiver in Jaelen Strong in Round 1.

50. Buffalo Bills
Kiper's pick: Garrett Grayson, QB, Colorado State

I don't think he'll compete to start right away, but we need a developmental prospect with upside out of this draft and Buffalo actually doesn't have a ton of needs, though I still think the O-line needs help.

51. Houston Texans
McShay's pick: Benardrick McKinney, LB, Mississippi State

Personally, I think Kiper reached a little bit with Phillip Dorsett as Houston's first-round pick, but McKinney is a good option here. The Texans need an inside linebacker and he would be a good fit in Romeo Crennel's defensive system.

52. Philadelphia Eagles
Kiper's pick: Tre Jackson, G, Florida State

Jackson hits a need here for a team that isn't really stacked with needs. I also considered Tyler Lockett, as the WR depth isn't great here.

53. Cincinnati Bengals
McShay's pick: Preston Smith, DE, Mississippi State

Steal alert! The Bengals need to upgrade at defensive end and Smith is the No. 42 player on my board. He's very good against the run and offers upside as a pass-rusher.

54. Detroit Lions
Kiper's pick: Senquez Golson, CB, Ole Miss

The secondary took a step forward last year, but I love the idea of Golson coming in and handling a ton of reps in the slot. He also has exceptional ball skills. Can't be short on corners in the NFC North.

55. Arizona Cardinals
McShay's pick: Paul Dawson, LB, TCU

The Cardinals got a big-time running back in Round 1 in Melvin Gordon, and now can fill their need at inside linebacker with a playmaker in Dawson.

56. Pittsburgh Steelers
Kiper's pick: Owamagbe Odighizuwa, DE, UCLA

Sticking with the defense in Pittsburgh. He's not a great pass-rusher, but he plays the run well and is a fantastic athlete they can develop.

57. Carolina Panthers
McShay's pick: Tyler Lockett, WR, Kansas State

Lockett is a playmaker who plays bigger than his size and is a good fit alongside second-year receiver Kelvin Benjamin. But mostly I just didn't want Kiper to get the chance to pick Lockett for his hometown Ravens, who need a receiver.

58. Baltimore Ravens
Kiper's pick: Clive Walford, TE, Miami

I got the Ravens the cornerback help they needed in Round 1, now I get Joe Flacco a needed big-body target in the passing game. Walford is a true matchup problem.

59. Denver Broncos
McShay's pick: Ali Marpet, G, Hobart

I'm doubling down on getting offensive line help for Peyton Manning and the Broncos here, as they took center Cameron Erving at No. 28 overall.

60. Dallas Cowboys
Kiper's pick: D'Joun Smith, CB, Florida Atlantic

I wasn't in love with Todd getting Goldman in Round 1. But I can get Dallas needed help at corner here. (Thank goodness I'm here.)

61. Indianapolis Colts
McShay's pick: Donovan Smith, OT, Penn State

Offensive linemen have flown off the board in this mock draft, so I had to reach for Smith a little bit here. But I really needed to get a tackle who can help protect Andrew Luck long term.

62. Green Bay Packers
Kiper's pick: Carl Davis, DT, Iowa

The Packers can use added depth along the D-line, and Davis brings a run-stuffer who flashes the ability to penetrate.

63. Seattle Seahawks
McShay's pick: Michael Bennett, DT, Ohio State

Bennett is the No. 39 prospect on my board, so this is a value pick as much as anything else. He's a disruptive player from the three-technique position.

64. New England Patriots
Kiper's pick: Dorial Green-Beckham, WR, Oklahoma

It's a first-round talent with some off-field question marks. But at this point you place a bet on talent. A pass-catcher with a huge frame, he can help extend the (endless) Tom Brady window.

Round 3

65. Tampa Bay Buccaneers
McShay's pick: Mario Edwards, DE, Florida State

Edwards projects as a defensive end in Tampa's 4-3 defense, and with this pick the Bucs now have addressed their top three needs: QB (Jameis Winston), OL (Jake Fisher) and DE (Edwards).

66. Tennessee Titans
Kiper's pick: Dezmin Lewis, WR, Central Arkansas

The 6-foot-4, 215-pound receiver with a sub-4.5 40 time who gets a little overlooked in a deep draft at the position. Not a bad bet.

67. Jacksonville Jaguars
McShay's pick: P.J. Williams, CB, Florida State

In Amari Cooper, Vic Beasley and Williams (who helps bolster a thin group of Jacksonville cornerbacks), the Jaguars have come out of this draft with three really good players. Even Kiper might give them an A.

68. Oakland Raiders
Kiper's pick: Ifo Ekpre-Olomu, CB, Oregon

If he doesn't hurt his knee, we're talking Round 1. He might be a total redshirt for the Raiders, but he's a good get at this point.

69. Washington Redskins
McShay's pick: Ameer Abdullah, RB, Nebraska

Abdullah is a great value pick here, and the Redskins could use a difference-maker as a change-of-pace back -- particularly in the passing game and on third downs -- to pair with workhorse back Alfred Morris. Abdullah fits the bill.

70. New York Jets
Kiper's pick: Justin Hardy, WR, East Carolina

They have the O-line help as well as a pass-rusher, so I'm grabbing a ready-to-help wide receiver in Round 3.

71. Chicago Bears
McShay's pick: Jordan Phillips, DT Oklahoma

Phillips has an inconsistent motor but outstanding athleticism for his size, and fits as a prototypical nose tackle in a 3-4 alignment -- something the Bears need. That's three good players at need positions for Chicago: WR Kevin White, ILB Eric Kendricks and Phillips.

72. St. Louis Rams
Kiper's pick: Charles Gaines, CB, Louisville

The Rams got a steal with E.J. Gaines in last year's draft, and I'm getting them another Gaines today. They need another CB.

73. Atlanta Falcons
McShay's pick: Rashad Greene, WR, Florida State

Greene fills a need for Atlanta as a slot receiver to replace Harry Douglas alongside outside receivers Julio Jones and Roddy White.

74. New York Giants
Kiper's pick: Quinten Rollins, S, Miami (Ohio)

The Giants need help at cornerback, and they get a tremendous amount of upside out of the former (stud) point guard.

75. New Orleans Saints
McShay's pick: Ronald Darby, CB, Florida State

The Saints keep checking off needs in this draft, with OLB Randy Gregory, WR Devin Smith, G A.J. Cann and now Darby, who brings depth and elite speed to New Orleans' revamped secondary.

76. Minnesota Vikings
Kiper's pick: Sammie Coates, WR, Auburn

Coates is more of an athlete than a polished wide receiver at this point, but it's worth betting on his upside at this stage. A monster athlete.

77. Cleveland Browns
McShay's pick: Nate Orchard, OLB, Utah

I'd like to get the Browns a wide receiver here, but there aren't any worth taking in this scenario. Orchard is a good fit to replace free-agent departure Jabaal Sheard in Cleveland's defense.

78. New Orleans Saints
Kiper's pick: Bryce Petty, QB, Baylor

I don't think Petty can play right away, but the Saints already have added so much talent I like making a long-term play at this spot.

79. San Francisco 49ers
McShay's pick: Trey Flowers, DE, Arkansas

Flowers is a great value pick at this point, and I'm not worried about taking two defensive ends with Flowers and first-rounder Arik Armstead. Flowers provides more as a pass-rusher, while Armstead does his best work against the run.

80. Kansas City Chiefs
Kiper's pick: Jake Ryan, LB, Michigan

Ryan hits a clear need at inside linebacker. The value works here and he has a chance to push for starter reps.

81. Buffalo Bills
McShay's pick: Markus Golden, DE, Missouri

The Bills need a starting outside linebacker opposite Jerry Hughes in Rex Ryan's 3-4 scheme, and Golden is a very productive pass-rusher who should be able to fill that role.

82. Houston Texans
Kiper's pick: Lorenzo Mauldin, LB, Louisville

We already got a true downhill thumper with Benardrick McKinney in Round 2, and Mauldin comes in to help at OLB, where Brooks Reed has departed.

83. San Diego Chargers
McShay's pick: Jay Ajayi, RB, Boise State

Ajayi is a good value here as the No. 50 player on my board, and the Chargers benefit by filling their biggest need position -- running back -- with a starting-caliber player in Round 3.

84. Philadelphia Eagles
Kiper's pick: Tre McBride, WR, William & Mary

The Eagles need another wide receiver, and McBride offers plenty of upside. This is a fantastic athlete many fans haven't seen.

85. Cincinnati Bengals
McShay's pick: Grady Jarrett, DT, Clemson

This might be the best value of this whole draft. He's the No. 55 player on my board and fits perfectly in Cincy's 4-3 defense as a penetrating three-technique defensive tackle.

86. Arizona Cardinals
Kiper's pick: Alex Carter, CB, Stanford

Carter is an underrated athlete and offers potential versatility. I like the depth addition in a secondary that got stretched last season.

87. Pittsburgh Steelers
McShay's pick: Anthony Harris, S, Virginia

The Steelers really need to improve their secondary, and in first-round pick Byron Jones and Harris they'll have added two talented coverage players.

88. Detroit Lions
Kiper's pick: Jeremy Langford, RB, Michigan State

I considered Duke Johnson here, but Theo Riddick gives us a lot of what Johnson would, and Langford is insurance for Joique Bell and can handle a good share of carries himself.

89. Carolina Panthers
McShay's pick: T.J. Yeldon, RB, Alabama

The Panthers already got their offensive tackle (D.J. Humphries) and wide receiver (Tyler Lockett), so they can make something of a luxury pick in Yeldon.

90. Baltimore Ravens
Kiper's pick: Duke Johnson, RB, Miami

Johnson is a better talent than this draft slot would indicate, particularly as a pass-catcher out of the backfield, but he dropped a bit on durability questions.

91. Dallas Cowboys
McShay's pick: David Johnson, RB, Northern Iowa

The run on running backs continues. Johnson isn't an elite player, but his size and pass-catching ability are assets, and along with Darren McFadden he can help fill the void left by DeMarco Murray.

92. Denver Broncos
Kiper's pick: Henry Anderson, DE, Stanford

I know Todd wanted Anderson somewhere. Sorry McShay. To quote Todd, "He'll be a good player for about 10 years." I tend to agree. Great run defender.

93. Indianapolis Colts
McShay's pick: James Sample, S, Louisville

The Colts are in need of a starter at free safety opposite strong safety Mike Adams, and Sample could compete for the job as a rookie. He possesses above-average coverage ability and is excellent in run support.

94. Green Bay Packers
Kiper's pick: Hayes Pullard, LB, USC

We needed an inside linebacker, and Pullard gives us the chance to get a starter out of Round 3.

95. Seattle Seahawks
McShay's pick: Hroniss Grasu, C, Oregon

The Seahawks are in need of help all along their offensive line, and their top need is at center, following the trade that sent starter Max Unger to New Orleans in exchange for Jimmy Graham. Grasu could challenge for the starting job.

96. New England Patriots
Kiper's pick: Xavier Cooper, DT, Washington State

Cooper is a penetrator who can deepen the D-line rotation early on. He's not replacing Big Vince (nobody is), but they need a couple of bodies there.

97. New England Patriots
McShay's pick: Shaq Thompson, S/LB, Washington

Thompson is a good value pick this late in the third round, as the No. 69 prospect on my board, and his versatility should be an asset for Bill Belichick.

98. Kansas City Chiefs
Kiper's pick: Brett Hundley, QB, UCLA

I know my coach (Andy Reid) loves to draft a QB to develop as a keeper or a trade chip, and Hundley has talent to mold.

99. Cincinnati Bengals
McShay's pick: Jeff Heuerman, TE, Ohio State

The Bengals need to add a tight end to either play alongside Tyler Eifert or push him for playing time, and Heuerman is a big target with good ball skills.